"I don't see it that way"

Over at Carrie's blog we're discussing St. Augustine's view of Scripture. Early on in the discussion, kmerian pointed out what the great saint famously said in Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental:

For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church (5:6).

For my part, I pointed out what St. Augustine said in On Christian Doctrine:

a man who is resting upon faith, hope and love, and who keeps a firm hold upon these, does not need the Scriptures except for the purpose of instructing others (I, 39:43).

And I went on to say:

So on two scores it's clear that St. Augustine did not treat the Bible the same way as Protestants do. For him, the holy Catholic Church was the authority when it comes to matters of salvation. And if you're asking me whether I would agree with St. Augustine about this, then I most certainly do.

Carrie replied:

I don't see it that way. Certainly not the way the RCC portrays it today.

My reply seems rather obvious:

But you disagree with what seems to me to be the rather obvious sense of this sentence: I would not believe in the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.

If by this he does not mean that the authority of the Catholic Church was pivotal in his decision to become a Christian - in moving him to become one - in such a way that apart from the Catholic Church's authority he would not have become a Christian, then what do you say that he meant by that sentence?

Is it not rather obvious what St. Augustine is saying? Particularly within the context of what he's writing? Notice what he says just before that famous confession:

Let us see then what Manichæus teaches me; and particularly let us examine that treatise which he calls the Fundamental Epistle,in which almost all that you believe is contained. For in that unhappy time when we read it we were in your opinion enlightened. The epistle begins thus:—"Manichæus, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the providence of God the Father. These are wholesome words from the perennial and living fountain." Now, if you please, patiently give heed to my inquiry. I do not believe Manichæus to be an apostle of Christ. Do not, I beg of you, be enraged and begin to curse. For you know that it is my rule to believe none of your statements without consideration. Therefore I ask, who is this Manichæus? You will reply, An apostle of Christ. I do not believe it. Now you are at a loss what to say or do; for you promised to give knowledge of the truth, and here you are forcing me to believe what I have no knowledge of. Perhaps you will read the gospel to me, and will attempt to find there a testimony to Manichæus. But should you meet with a person not yet believing the gospel, how would you reply to him were he to say, I do not believe? For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church. So when those on whose authority I have consented to believe in the gospel tell me not to believe in Manichæus, how can I but consent? Take your choice. If you say, Believe the Catholics: their advice to me is to put no faith in you; so that, believing them, I am precluded from believing you;—If you say, Do not believe the Catholics: you cannot fairly use the gospel in bringing me to faith in Manichæus; for it was at the command of the Catholics that I believed the gospel... (Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, chapter 5).

Can anything be more clear? St. Augustine's appeal is clearly to the authority of the Catholic Church!

Now, if Protestants cannot simply acknowledge the clear statements of one of their putative favorites among the Fathers, it seems quite obvious that questions of interpretation are of fundamental importance. And if hermeneutical questions are so important with respect to understanding a Father of the Church, how much more important are they with respect to the Divine Revelation contained in the Bible? Once again we see, it's a matter of authority. Carrie is perfectly happy to say "I don't see it that way," as if that matters. But in her Protestant framework, the bottom line is: "I don't see it that way" is all that matters.

But there's more, in this same text of St. Augustine.

For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom,... which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nations keeps me in the Church; so does her authority, inaugurated by miracles, nourished by hope, enlarged by love, established by age. The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the Apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection, gave it in charge to feed His sheep, down to the present episcopate. And so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house. Such then in number and importance are the precious ties belonging to the Christian name which keep a believer in the Catholic Church, as it is right they should, though from the slowness of our understanding, or the small attainment of our life, the truth may not yet fully disclose itself (ibid., chapter 4:5; emphasis added).

Can anything be clearer? Can it be plausibly maintained even for a moment that St. Augustine was not Catholic? Nonsense.